Do you love her?

The therapist yesterday wanted to know where I was in my relationship with Meredith. He asked “Ok where are you now? Are you over it? Are there still some feelings or do you still love her?”

I found myself answering “I’m still very much in love with her.”

*

Tonight my baby fell asleep on Wife. She looked down and saw his precious face and said “Sometimes I just think about how much I love our two kids and how much I love you and I get so happy I just start crying.” And her eyes were filling up with tears. 

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24 thoughts on “Do you love her?

  1. That is all so unbelievably sad. This period of time is going to be the last that all of them(I include Meredith’s family) will know peace. The anger and grief will stop your wife from sharing the daily small miracles that are babies and children. Meredith’s husband will be some more collateral damage. Just so sad.

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  2. I’m sure my husband felt the same way about his OW right after the affair ended. I honestly still can’t understand and wrap my brain around how he could’ve been “in love” after 3 weeks but who the hell am I to judge, right? I wasn’t in his shoes. Anyways, once he severed contact and brought himself back to reality with his wife and children I believe his “love” for her faded and he finally realized what was important and who he truly loved and that was us. From what I’ve read it does take time to lose those “in love” feelings for the AP.

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    1. Yeah I’m not sure about love after 3 weeks either. That seems more like lust. But there is a powerful connection I’m sure. I have severed contact for a couple of months now and haven’t physically seen her since May. I can feel things changing. My brain is able to process things more clearly, but my feelings for her are not changing at all. Maybe I still need more time.

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      1. I think you do need more time. My husband’s affair lasted 3 months and I’m positive it took double that time for him to finally realize he wasn’t in love with her anymore, or even in love to begin with. I say this because he was still keeping secrets and lying to me. Once he came completely clean the lust/love halted and he was processing things much clearer. My husband actually told me he said the “I love yous” first and that he wasn’t in love with me anymore. That was excruciating, but necessary to hear to know what I was dealing with and the route I personally needed to take to save my marriage.

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  3. if I was your wife this would kill me – but if I was your wife I’d be doing everything in my power to make my marriage work – which she is going to counseling so that’s encouraging – but I do have to say if I was your wife and you felt like this about someone else I wouldn’t want to be with you – I told my guy this week if you want someone else than I don’t want you

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  4. I’m reluctant to say anything but you already know my opinion. And I will save you all the therapy in the world, because it’s what you fundamentally know and want yourself: keep both.

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    1. That’s a illogically fractured approach to filling a need that has more to do with being known/seen/understood/realized to your fullest potential than anything else. Everyone in that dynamic would be getting at best a fraction of what is needed or possible out of a relationship, including you…and isn’t your dissatisfaction with the current realization of your needs a big part of the reason why this situation exists in the first place?

      What will you do when that dissatisfaction continues to grow? Would you be willing to swallow what you couldn’t before? Willing to sacrifice something considered previously unthinkable? Wouldn’t that be a terrible irony?

      A person doesn’t change themselves by relying on someone else’s strengths to make up for the lack — that just postpones the inevitable aand causes further fracturing. You will never be truly seen or known by anyone if you continue to operate with secrecy, splitting, and lies of omission. Learn to effectively and competently communicate, navigate, and negotiate your sexual and emotional needs. This requires honesty with all partners…which is only something you can provide. Take ownership of communicating your truth, because at the end of the day being known and realized is YOUR need.

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      1. Yes, Ray. That is the goal of therapy. Learn how to communicate with my wife more effectively. Because my wife does not understand or listen when I try to explain to her. I would say we have hit the point of no return. I need to learn how to tell her things she doesn’t want to hear and she needs to be ready to listen. Goals for 2017.

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      2. He’s already communicated his needs to his wife. She shuts him down and doesn’t give a shit. At a certain point the “logical” choice is to stop squeezing blood from a turnip.

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      3. Thanks for the link. I had read that post previously, along with your others; the content was actually one of many reiterations on a theme to inform my opinion here. It is a very other-centric post…the possibilities and potentials of you in relation to what you perceive in your wife, and to a lesser extent the same in relation to your other woman…I wonder if you see that and realize how often this is the context in which you present yourself — in juxtaposition to usually an oppositional force (e.g. wife) or supportive force (e.g. Meredith), but never solely as a force by yourself. This obscures your wants and needs behind the expressions that have existed and been available for them, which can hint at the fuller picture but does not portray it entirely. For many obvious reasons, least of which is that any encounter or lack thereof is informed by multiple factors including environment and partner(s) desires. I think this is indicative of why there has been such struggle for you in communicating and owning your needs…and is part and parcel of a problem that tends to plague all Rationals: effective and in depth examination, realization, exploration, and then eventual communication of their wants and needs…

        To put this very broadly =

        Rationals with a xNTJ preference tend to reach what feel like “big enlightenment moments” and then rush to sort that new information into something actionable and/or a new understanding of self. They often do no let the data simply exist for no seeming “reason” without finding a slot for it in their existing framework or altering the framework to fit the new whole, which is the xNTJ at work…but that is not how those personality types most skilled in navigating emotionality operate. (It leads one to wonder why we don’t learn to adapt and change ourselves given the examples of others, but instead expect them to learn and change in relation to us…or why we can say things like “I’ve told them my needs/this is a problem/something has to change but they just don’t think this is important” without realizing you’re most likely doing the same in reverse to their true insights because you don’t value them as important…)

        This rapid response tendency is both one of the xNTJ’s greatest strengths and simultaneously a pretty big weakness. They may or may not realize that their experience and approach to examining/perceiving/expressing nuanced and often not easily categorized “feelings” is problematic. They are often not comfortable with experiences of extended emotional and informational ambiguity, and thus rush the essential process of sitting with a feeling or new bit of info and experiencing to its fullest without trying to prematurely sort it into something understandable. xNTJ’s sometimes don’t see that as a problem, or view their rapid response as a double-edged sword. They don’t see that premature attempts to parse and communicate data often leads to cascade errors. Or that they can unintentionally communicate inconsistencies and untruths if they lack a fully nuanced picture of the whole. To them, being decisive is often synonymous with being incisive, insightful, and direct. Which they are oftentimes not at all when understanding and communicating feelings, and usually can’t really see the root cause and instead experience it as an overwhelming frustration with not being heard or listened to correctly. So it becomes to their minds primarily a question of learning how exactly to sort their words and approaches to the most effective communication of their ideas…to orate or more clearly enunciate their thoughts…and they never see that what they really need to work on is listening without parsing data and then sitting with that information. They have to learn to meditate without prejudice or goal on events, communications, and reactions much more than they ever have to hone their ability to use words. They just don’t see or value this.

        Communication is not just getting someone to understand your series of facts. xNTJ’s need to learn to listen actively while controlling the impulse to parse and assign meaning, and let an examined thing sit before choosing how to catalogue it. This is not a skill native to their personality, so it will not feel comfortable or even “worthwhile”…and it will not be developed overnight. However. It is an essential skill for communicating and understanding feelings. So there’s that.

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    2. That’s a illogically fractured approach to filling a need that has more to do with being known/seen/understood/realized to your fullest potential than anything else. Everyone in that dynamic would be getting at best a fraction of what is needed or possible out of a relationship, including you…and isn’t your dissatisfaction with the current realization of your needs a big part of the reason why this situation exists in the first place?

      What will you do when that dissatisfaction continues to grow? Would you be willing to swallow what you couldn’t before? Willing to sacrifice something considered previously unthinkable? Wouldn’t that be a terrible irony?

      A person doesn’t change themselves by relying on someone else’s strengths to make up for the lack — that just postpones the inevitable aand causes further fracturing. You will never be truly seen or known by anyone if you continue to operate with secrecy, splitting, and lies of omission. Learn to effectively and competently communicate, navigate, and negotiate your sexual and emotional needs. This requires honesty with all partners…which is only something you can provide. Take ownership of communicating your truth, because at the end of the day being known and realized is YOUR need.

      Liked by 1 person

    3. You make me smile of course. It seems everyone has an opinion and nearly all fall to either find happiness with the other woman or move away from her and devote yourself to your wife. No middle ground.

      And then there is TT. Sitting squarely in the middle. Keep on keeping on. I love the steadfastness. Unfortunately I cannot keep on for reasons other than me. Meredith can’t either.

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      1. You’d be missing the full scope of the underlying issue if you make this primarily about learning to express yourself to your wife. Or about her in particular accepting and accomodating what you have to say in a way that is meaningful to you. Why are you seeking satisfaction and wholeness in another person? Why are you assuming you would be happy with either of your partners if you aren’t happy now?

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      2. I must say I’m enjoying this discussion and I definitely agree with the saying “wherever you go, there you are”, and that solely seeking fulfillment from others for things you may be missing in yourself is not the way to go, but I don’t believe this to be the case with Mr Patience. Do you blog anywhere, Ray? I’d be interested in reading your musings…

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  5. Ray, he is into bondage….. I think. His wife is not. This would be cause for divorce for me. I have an acute case of claustrophobia and when the son of a bitch who tried it with me would eventually go to sleep I would take a heavy iron fryingpan and beat the shit out of him, but Meredith likes it. Not the frying pan. Oh, wait, isn’t that lifestyle about pain? I am being snarky but if you, R., are truly unhappy with your life you need to man up and do some truth telling.

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  6. Magenta — I think it’s more complex than that, although “shortcutting” is definitely something that can and does happen when you connect with someone strong in something underdeveloped in you. (Also: no blog, although I have considered it from time to time.)

    Moi — It seems to me that Mr. Patience is into static D/s power dynamic play without switching up control, in addition to a specific attraction to certain possibly fetishized scenarios and acts. Although he does criticize his wife’s expectation and enactment of what he terms “equality”, I do not get the impression that he’s expressing any desire to force an unwanted dynamic or encounter. (Although obviously he is not aware that framing the needs disagreement between him and his wife in this fashion would be incredibly triggering for many survivors of sexualized and/or domestic violence, or those hailing from families of origin that included control/boundary/respect issues. Including, quite possibly, his wife.)

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    1. I somehow missed your reply – thanks Ray. I’m enjoying the questions you ask…..the quality of your life depends on the quality of the questions you ask yourself on a daily basis, as they say.

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  7. Also, Mr. Patience —

    “I was tempted to try to answer this question again, another form of the statement: all marriages are work so put the work into the one you know.”

    This was not another form of that statement. This is actually an example of lack of “listening” skills. This was you reading into my comment for a predetermined meaning because you “hear this a lot”…so now you have demonstrated hearing it where it doesn’t exist. I’ve noticed you tend to reply rather than question/engage your readers in their responses…but you also say you enjoy discussion and examination of key concepts and ideas…so now I would pose a few questions to you for further consideration. What is your expectation of being “listened” to by others? How do you know you have been heard? Which party is responsible for which tasks in effective communication? How often do you feel unheard or unlistened to?

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  8. I’m jumping in the middle here but no matter what, that sounded like a beautiful moment. Savor it.

    Marriage during the time of raising little ones is always difficult and fraught with hardship. Hang in there. Sounds like you want to and it’s so great you are trying.

    Hugs

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